Recall for 2005-2008 Toyota Corrola and Matrix Vehicles, Pontiac Vibe

I just recently received a call from a customer in Dallas, Texas.  She was concerned with a letter she received in the mail from Toyota about her 2007 Toyota Corolla.  The letter was informing her that a safety recall is requiring the vehicle's Engine Control Module (ECM) to be replaced.  The ECM's have a defect and could cause the engine to suddenly stall while driving. (Click on this link to see a copy of the letter: http://bit.ly/Corolla_Recall)  Her main concern was, approximately one year before she received this notice, the ECM was replaced by a local garage for a P2716 (Pressure Control Solenoid D Circuit) Code.

Her main questions were:

1. Does the ECM that was installed a year prior still have a problem?

2. She paid over $1,000 to have the ECM installed last year.  How can she be compensated for that repair that is now covered under this recall?

Two valid questions, especially since the ECM was replaced based on a bulletin that Toyota released in September of 2007 for the P2716 code. (Click on this link to see a copy of the factory bulletin: http://bit.ly/P2716_Toyota_Bulletin) 

To answer question 1, I don't know yet.  The only way to know if an updated ECM was installed is to see the actual factory recall notice the Toyota technicians have.  Being the recall is so new, the factory bulletin is not yet available to the aftermarket.  I'm going to set out some feelers to see if I can get a hold of it.  On that bulletin, there should be some part numbers that will tell the technician if the existing ECM is one of the effected models.

Question number 2, the following is a copy from the factory letter:

6. Is the repair covered by warranty?  Will I have to pay any money out of pocket for this repair?

This repair will be performed at no charge to the customer. Owners who have previously paid for replacement of the ECM to address this specific condition should refer to their owner letter for reimbursement consideration instructions.

Key words here: "reimbursement consideration".  Only time will tell how Toyota is going to deal with this. 

Here's another twist: The 2005-2008 Pontiac Vibes were built by Toyota and have the same drivetrain as the Corolla and Matrix.  DetNews.com reports Toyota recalling the Vibes for the same problem with stalling.  These vehicles also had the same problem with the ECM's causing the P2716 code, but Pontiac never released a technical bulletin for the issue.  Being there was only 161,754 Vibes built with the issue compared with over 1.3 million Corollas and Matrix vehicles, GM just didn't see it as a big enough issue.

Please comment the blog or contact me at peoplestransmission@gmail.com if you have any incite on this issue.

Can Servicing a Transmission that has not been Maintained Cause it to Fail Prematurely?

This question was sent in from a customer out of Grapevine, Texas:

Hi,

I have a 1999 expedition with the 5.4L engine. I am on the second transmission. The First transmission was replaced at 100,000 miles and had a trans cooler installed at that time. The truck now has 209,000 (109,000 on 2nd trannie). I don't remember if I have had the fluid serviced in the last 100,000 miles. The local garage will not service the transmission, claiming that since it has gone so long without a service, the junk floating around is keeping the transmission together and that I would have a transmission failure if I replace the fluid and filter. Does this sound right to you?? Should I service the transmission??

Sincerely,
Forgetful Joe

This was my response:

Hi Joe,

There is some truth about a service causing damage to a transmission that has not been maintained properly. However, I don't think it will be an issue with your transmission. I would recommend a standard pan drop service so that we can see what kind of debris are in the transmission. Hopefully, we'll find a normal amount of material in the pan, change the filter and fluid, and give you back a sense of security when it comes to the transmission in your Expedition.

The myth of the old fluid keeping the transmission together was more true years back. Automatic transmission fluid (ATF) has high amounts of additives and detergents to help keep all of the small parts moving freely. 20 Years ago, the glue used to bond the paper clutch material to the steel plates was not as good as today's bonding agents. What would happen is, the old transmission fluid would break the glue down if not serviced regularly, then when the new high detergent fluid was pored in, it would literally wash the clutch material off of the steel plates. Better fluids and better parts have made it much safer to service transmissions that have been neglected. 109,000 miles out of a rebuild is great, considering it didn't last that long when it was new. The cooler that you had installed is most likely the reason for it's long, trouble free life.

The service that can damage the transmission at this point is a flush. A flush is a common technique for cleaner servicing of transmissions and to replace all of the fluid in the transmission and torque converter. The problem with the flush is, it can stir up the normal amount of materials that transmissions produce over life, and send that material into delicate moving parts of the transmission. This can result in abnormal shifting, check engine lights, and possibly catastrophic failure.

I also suggest we find a transmission specialist to perform your service. They'll know what to look for when servicing your transmission just in case there is a problem forming. I have a few shops in your area that are being evaluated for Peoples Certification. I will contact you with their information first thing in the morning.

I look forward to talking with you more.

Jon Rodriguez
Peoples Transmission
1-888-415-2098

How Transmissions are Made.

This is a great five minute breakdown on how a transmission works.  The transmission shown in the clip is called a 4T45E.  The 4T45E comes in several, light duty GM and Saturn, front wheel drive passenger cars. 

The factory assembly of the unit as seen here, is the only time that the transmission will be new.  Even if the transmission fails under warranty, the dealerships will either repair the existing transmission in the vehicle, or swap it out with a factory remanufactured transmission.  Remanufactured transmissions, commonly called remans, are built just as they would be in a Peoples Transmission Certified shop.  The transmission is removed from the vehicle, dismantled completely (even more than what this video shows), damaged or worn parts are replaced with new, rebuilt, or used parts, cleaned, then reassembled. 

Mo's Magnet

Our previous posting talked about servicing Honda transmissions.  Honda recommended that aftermarket flushing machines not be used on their vehicles.  What's the alternative?  Simply unscrew a drain plug at the bottom of the transmission.  That will let out about a third of the fluid which is all that's needs to be changed if done at the correct service intervals.  In the case of Mo, she had not serviced her Honda in 130,000 miles!  Did that hurt her transmission?  It definitely knocked some life out of it, but lucky for her, it's still OK.  The magnet on her drain plug had a normal amount of material on it (see picture) and the transmission seemed to shift fine.  We're going to have her come in after a few thousand miles to do another drain and fill which will help get some more of that old fluid out and help make sure that her transmission is in working order.

Need help with your transmission?  Leave us a message here on the blog, our Facebook page on the comment tag, or on our website peoplestransmission.com.

Honda of North America Recommends NOT Flushing Honda Transmissions

Yes, Honda is against the flushing of their transmissions using flushing machines.  This comes as a big surprise to a lot of people being that transmission flushing is such a popular service offered by transmission repair, general automotive and express lube shops.  Below is copied text from two Honda factory bulletins.  These bulletins are given to Honda technicians as guidelines when servicing Honda vehicles at the dealerships.  These bulletins are also provided to general automotive and Peoples Transmission Certified Shops that use proper repair software.  This is why Peoples Transmission makes sure that the repair shops that we certify are up to date with training, so that you can be assured that procedures offered for your vehicle won't affect warranties or damage your vehicle.

The second bulletin offers a procedure to "flush" the transmission without the use of aftermarket flushing tools.

Consult your owners manual or contact Peoples Transmission to find out when you should service your vehicle.

Here is the first bulletin titled: Flush Systems: A Big Taboo

FLUSH SYSTEMS: A BIG TABOO

HONDA SERVICE NEWS

Reference Number(s): HSN0206-07, Date of Issue: February 1, 2006

HONDA: All Models

CATEGORY: Honda Service News

APPLIES TO:All Models

Related Ref Number(s): HSN0206-07

ARTICLE BEGINNING

SERVICE INFORMATION

In Honda vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that handle lubrication, cooling, fuel,

and power steering, are designed to give thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow

the maintenance schedule to the letter.

Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products look impressive and

make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly recommends you avoid using them on any

Honda vehicle. Here's why:

The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket • flush systems.

• Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service customer's wait time.

• Flush systems haven't demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance or reliability.

Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you're flushing. This will

dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its performance.

•

Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade the fluid's or lubricant's

performance. This is particularly true for coolant.

•

• Any damage caused by flush systems isn't covered by warranty.

Here is a copy of the second bulletin titled: Check Out the Latest Word on A/T Flushing Service News

not listed in the S/Ms, and ifThe term "flushin" refers to repeatedly draining and refilling the2,500 rpm .won't shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shiftfour more times .two more times .

CHECK OUT THE LATEST WORD ON A/T FLUSHING

SERVICE NEWS

Reference Number(s): 08010A, Date of Issue: January 1, 2008

Affected Models:General Information

Related Ref Number(s): 08010A

ARTICLE BEGINNING

SERVICE INFORMATION

Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Honda Genuine ATF-Z1 (and no

substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It's

you do an ISIS search, you'll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they're rather

dated, and none of them say the same thing. Even the most recent one (see "Revised A/T Flushing

Procedure" in the December '00 issue) still mentions that old work horse-the PGM Tester-which

we stopped supporting when the HDS first came on the scene.

NOTE:

trans with Honda Genuine ATF-Z1. Don't confuse it with aftermarket

flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you

avoid using them on any Honda vehicle.

The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the

vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at

shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way.

In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So

here's the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:

Set the parking brake, and raise the 1. vehicle on a lift.

Drain the trans, and refill it with Honda Genuine ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to

ISIS for details.

2.

3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.

4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to

• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.

If the trans

from Drive to Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.

•

Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter

lockup.

5.

Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero.

Shift into Reverse and then into Neutral.

6.

7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6

8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6

10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1.